Flu Shot


Can I hear from visitors to this blog if the flu shot shortage is a concern to them? I'm having trouble understanding the whole bruhaha around the shortage, Dick Cheney getting a shot, shot lotteries, etc.


For me, it is an absolute non-issue. I've never gotten one, at least not since I was a child.

I've gotten them occasionally in the past, but haven't fared any better or worse with or without them. For those who aren't "high risk," it's certainly not the tragedy that the Democrats are trying desperately to make it into - and for those who are high risk, there is enough vaccine to cover, if people use some common sense. I'm glad Dick Cheney got one, as a member of a high risk group, and think Bush is being sensible in saying this year, he's not going to get one.

In my first year of grad school, my roommate got the flu. He was like death warmed over - no, make that death barely defrosted - for a week. I hadn't gotten a shot (I'd never had one), and I was damn lucky I didn't catch the flu. I vowed I'd get one every year thereafter, and I have, though I guess I won't be able to get one this year. Yes, the shortage bothers me, though I don't blame Bush, I blame people like the trial lawyers.

There are plenty of people in the high-risk group who cannot obtain the innoculations. Medical facilities are reserving their stock for direct employees, not for the high risk groups.

Cheney should indeed have gotten one, as he is the vice-president, and his ability to function should the president be incompacitated is a fairly important matter.

It would appear that the shortage was exacerbated by the previous Democrat administration federalizing a good deal of the innoculations "for the children" resulting in a significant lack of profit, so that five pharmaceutical firms ceased production of the vaccine.

To me they're a non-issue because I don't think they do much good anyway. The flu virus mutates so quickly that between the time you get your shot and the time you get infected, it could be a totally different disease.

The key to not getting infected is to keep your hands clean and your immune system healthy and strong. That's the best defense.

I have never gotten the flu shot and have never gotten the flu. Or at least the "real flu".
The flu vaccine only covers certain strains based on years past strains. You can see that from the asian flu epidemic of last year that they still havent come up with a vaccine to cover the deadliest of flu's. Why? Because flu's mutate from year to year and science can't keep up that fast.

Second interesting note is that the flu shot contains mercury.. which in itself is dangerous and has been linked to alzheimers and parkinsons later down the line. Studies show that people who take this vaccine from year to year faithfully, have an increased risk for these diseases.

Currently, the flu vaccine IS NOT produced with cell lines from aborted babies, unlike some other vaccines (www.cogforlife.org) though I believe it is ACAMBIS that is working on a flu vaccine with these cell lines.

Just like anyother virus, we ourselves have to take precautions. Most of the folks that die or are seriously hit with the flu have underlying conditions that make their immune system breakdown.

Do practical things.. like up the vitamin c intake, wash hands frequently- DONT use antibacterial soap frequently-- this also destroys the good bacteria that helps fight infections. I think on web md they have practical tips to keep healthy.

On another note, it's interesting to show that some of the states who want to get their RX's from Canada because of their lower cost just dont get it that the FDA will have NO control of what is being sent here AND of what is going on in the plants overseas. Which is exactly what happened with Chiron. the US has no control of the overseas factories and batches get contaminated ALL the time here in the US and the FDA is quick to fine the pharmas and dump millions of dollars of worthless vaccines in the garbage... Nor is it the president's fault that this occured.

My 2cents...


I'd like to see the evidence re: mercury content and increased risk for those other diseases.

Saying that vaccines contain mercury is a lot like screaming at someone to put down the salt shaker because, for the love of God, it's full of CHLORINE! And SODIUM!

Either of those elements would be death if taken separately. When combined, they make a lovely seasoning, food preservative, etc. etc. etc.

Thimerosal is a salt that contains mercury. I'm not a chemist, but the fact that a chemical contains a certain element does not mean that the original element continues to exhibit its usual characteristics. Otherwise, we'd never be able to use salt (sodium plus chlorine), soap (lye plus fat), or any number of other things.

The thimerosal scare is just a boon for trial lawyers and an effort to pin rational blame for baffling diseases on someone who can be sued.

Most of the panic appears media generated. There are over 60 million units of vaccine availabe. Last year there were 80 million, and they had to destroy 10 million. That leaves a difference of only 10 million. If the vaccine is restricted to those that fall into the high risk groups, there should be enough. The problem is whether it will get to those that need it. I knew plenty of people who received it last year who really didn't need it. Hand washing plays no role in preventing the spread of influenza (unlike other communicable diseases). It is spread by aerosols. Antibacterial soap plays no role in reduction of transmission as influenza is caused by a virus, not by a bacteria. I've never heard of a link between Thimerosol and Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. I'd like to know the source of that claim. Some people have tried to make the claim that there is a link between it and Autism. However, evidence based does not support that.

This is a big non-issue for me: I've never gotten a flu shot and had no intention of geting one this year. I agree with another poster who saw it as largely media-generated hysteria, as well as providing Kerry with something to club Bush with. It's pathetic to claim that Bush is somehow to blame, but that hasn't stopped him.

It's a headache for me because I have to talk to patients about the flu shot. Right now, the clinic where I work, is planning to restrict the first shots to patients with more than one risk factor (ie, pregnant with asthma, over 50 with diabetes) and also to immunize the staff (so that if the epidemic is as bast as was forecast we will be able to take care of the sick).
However, my cynical mind sometimes wonders if this isn't just a maneuver to increase demand for a vaccine that has been a hard sell every years until last year.

I used to get the flu vaccine for free from the military. Now that was a cheap shot!
[rim shot]

Mike stated "Some people have tried to make the claim that there is a link between it and Autism. However, evidence based does not support that."

I disagree..There have been very reputable studies done, only to be refuted by the govt. Take a look at some of the congressional testimony, or talk to parents who have children who have been injured by vaccinations.

While not ALL children who are autistic have been damaged by vaccines, vaccine injured children are a reality and some are autistic in varying degrees.

Immunizations are a good thing and I have had all my children vaccinated with the exception of the few that have their origins in abortion.

But vaccine damage is very very real and until you have experienced it yourself, you can't say its hype. There may just be merit to it and with God's grace someday we will get to the root cause of why this is happening to our kids in increasing numbers.

Until then, I can't put my trust in the pharmas or to those who want to opress the truth, but truth will prevail. Whether it's the truth I want to hear or not, it will prevail.

For most people over 65 and/or chronically ill..it's a damn good idea to get the shot...it doesn't guaranttee a fluless winter but most physicians will tell you if YOU do get the flu, having had the shot will prolly make the course much shorter..........


How about the Columbia University study done by Dr. Mady Hornig in June 2004? Mice with a specific genetic susceptibility displayed autistic behaviors after receiving thimerosal. Proponents of the "thimerosal causes autism" theory have always said that it only affects children with a certain genetic susceptibility, whose bodies are unable to expel mercury normally so it ends up in the nervous system.

Other widely-publicized studies which purported to show no link between thimerosal and vaccines were conducted by people with ties to the pharmaceutical companies which manufacture vaccines and thimerosal. This consistitutes a conflict of interest.

Mercury is very toxic to the human nervous system. It is known to cause learning and behavioral problems in children. I read recently of an incident in a high school where kids broke into a lab and started playing with a gob of mercury, throwing it at each other and smearing it on the walls. When the school's administration found out, they closed the whole school down for a while and had it decontaminated! That's how dangerous mercury is.

Yet the pharmaceutical companies want us to believe that it is perfectly safe to inject this potent neurotoxin into the bodies of tiny babies?

Prior to 1992, thimerosal was used in only the DTP vaccine. But in 1992 the CDC and FDA approved two more vaccines - Hepatitis B and Hib - both of which contained thimerosal, and required all children to get them. And we're not single sticks here; we're talking:

- Four doses of Hep B during the first year of life, the first one soon after birth,

- Three of Hib, again during the first year of life,

- Four of DTP; the first three of which during the first year of life and the last dose at 18 mos. old.

That's a total of eleven shots, each (originally) containing 12.5 to 25.0 micrograms of mercury, given to little babies/toddlers. Since three shots are often given during the same visit, babies were having between 50 and 62.5 mcgs of this neurotoxin injected into their tiny bodies at a time.

This is 60 to 78 times above the level of exposure to mercury considered "safe" for infants!

Amazingly, no one did the math as to how much mercury these babies were receiving until 1999. When it was brought to the attention of the CDC and FDA that these babies were receiving, the FDA told pharmaceutical companies to stop producing vaccines containing thimerosal.

Then they turned around and started assuring everyone that there was no danger at all in babies receiving 60-78 times the "safe" amount of mercury! But if there was no danger why did they tell the pharmaceutical companies to stop using thimerosal? Doesn't compute, does it?

It's called covering ones butt out of fear of lawsuits.

In Jesu et Maria,


Incidentally, autism rates skyrocketed starting in the early 1990's, after the new vaccines were introduced. That's why people think there may be a connection. It's not just stupid scare tactics, and one doesn't have to be anti-vaccine to oppose putting a potent neurotoxin in a vaccine intended for infants!

So why doesn't every child who receives these vaccines become autistic? As I said above, some children are more susceptible than others, and the Columbia U. study seems to verify that genetic susceptibility plays a role.

I do believe that my autistic daughter was damaged by mercury-bearing vaccines. Yet I am not anti-vaccine; in fact my new baby is getting her shots, now that the thimerosal has been removed. I just want to see a safe and sane immunization policy which puts the welfare of children ahead of corporate profits.

What do I mean by that? Well, while the Hib and DTP shots are important because they protect against meningitis and whooping cough, the Hep B is actually unnecessary except for children born to moms who are Hep B+. Yet the CDC requires every single infant to be vaccinated for Hep B, even though it is not a typical childhood disease like measles or chicken pox. It is a sexually transmitted disease which most kids are in no danger of getting.

So why does the CDC want every baby to be vaccinated for Hep B? Because there were people on the vaccine review board back in 1992 who owned stock in the pharmaceutical companies making the vaccines, so approving these vaccines for everyone in the general population meant a financial boon for them.

Again, we see a conflict of interest. If you only knew how corrupt the CDC and FDA really are, it would make you angry.

And don't get me started on the link between vaccines, the CDC and abortion....

In Jesu et Maria,

Back to science instead of hysteria and conspiracy theories.

The vaccine for each year is based on what strain is predicted to be present in that year. These things tend to be cyclical. And influenza virii are not "completely different things" from each other. The variant protien shell structures are pretty consistant, and there is a lot of commonality. The one to watch, the one that could kill at least 100 million people in NA and Europe alone, is the H5N1 avian flu virus in SE Asia which has jumped the genera barrier from birds to mammals such as pigs. Pig virii do well in humans. The number of differnces from recent variants is as large as that of the Spanish Flu of 1919.

The sentiment aired in some previous posts that "well, they were the healthiest ubermenschen anyway, so it is ok that they died" is not Catholic. Nor any other shade of Trinitarian Christianity.

Vaccines make a significant difference in whether or not you contract the disease, how long you have it, and how severe it is.

The mercury business is just plain silly. On most substances the "safe" level is so many orders of magnitude beneath any level which would actually have a detectible negative effect, that one can chill on that one.

When I was a boy, we -handled- mercury in math class. Curious, none of us are autistic. Mercury and cinnabar(the oxide) were not considered dangerous in the past, and people had considerably more contact with it than today. The only people really harmed, were the hatters, who used mercury to make the beaver hair behave when making a hat. They got so much in them that it -did- make them, well, mad as a hatter. Benzene used in the printing industry might be a similar case today.


>>>Back to science instead of hysteria and conspiracy theories

I'm sorry that you feel the need to dismiss my posts above as unscientific "hysteria" and "conspiracy theories". It's all too typical of people who defend the immunization status quo at all costs. Why is it so wrong to advocate a small change like the removal of a harmful preservative from children's shots? I'm not saying destroy the whole vaccination program, just make it safer.

I cited a lot of scientific facts above, which you just chose to ignore. It is a scientific fact that mercury is a potent neurotoxin and that during the 1990's it was injected into little infant bodies at 60-78 times above the level that scientists consider safe. That can't be a good thing, which the FDA itself effectively admitted by asking vaccine manufacturers to remove thimerosal from children's vaccines. If mercury is so perfectly safe, why bother asking that of them?

>>>The mercury business is just plain silly.

If it's so silly, why are the FDA and similar organizations in other countries now advising pregnant women, nursing mothers and little children to refrain from eating fish with high levels of mercury in them, such as shark, swordfish, king mackerel, and tilefish. See:


They know that mercury can harm a fetus or growing baby. This is scientific fact. I'm not being hysterical, I'm drawing possible conclusions from scientific facts and recent research.

>>>When I was a boy, we -handled- mercury in math class. Curious, none of us are autistic.

That's because you were not a newborn baby and you did not have it injected into your system while your nervous system was at a delicate stage of development. Apples and oranges.

It is sadly typical of scientists to mock and lable those they disagree with, until those people are proven right. Time will tell. But let me again state that I am not some anti-vaccine zealot, I just don't want a neurotoxic substance injected into my tiny growing babies. Is that so crazy?

In Jesu et Maria,


I have one more point to make about the statement:

>>>When I was a boy, we -handled- mercury in math class. Curious, none of us are autistic.

When I was a child my mom used to smear merthiolate on my skinned knees and elbows. That was thimerosal! BTW, topical merthiolate was actually taken off the market during the 1980's over safety concerns - more on that below.

I also received amalgam fillings in my teeth as a child, which contain mercury, and have had contact with mercury during adulthood when cleaning up broken thermometers. Curiously, I never became autistic either.

Actually it's not so curious, since autism does not occur in late childhood or adulthood. It typically begins in toddlers at about 18 mos of age, though there are more rare cases of babies displaying autistic symptoms from birth.

So no matter how much Puzzled handled mercury in math class, he was in no danger of becoming autistic.

Now, here's a page with some safety data for thimerosal:


It's taken from the "Manufacturer Safety Data Sheet Information", not from some conspiracy-theorist nutcase. Note that under "Toxicology", it says:

"Poison. Experimental neoplastigen and teratogen. Harmful by inhalation and ingestion. May cause reproductive damage. May be harmful through skin contact."

That's the stuff they put in vaccines for infants. The manufacturer itself calls it a "poison".

Am I wrong for not wanting my babies to have a poison injected into their bodies? God gave them to me to care for them to the best of my abilities and knowledge. I would be remiss in that solemn duty if I allowed them to to be injected with a neurotoxin while their little nervous system is still developing.

And even if I am wrong about the dangers of thimerosal, I believe I am right to err on the side of caution where my children are concerned. So mock and dismiss me as a kook all you want, but I have a duty before God to do what I believe is best for the charges He gave me.

In Jesu et Maria,

Thank You Rosemarie for your wonderful post.

Until people have experienced a vaccine injury through their own child or close relative, they have no idea. They will refute this saying it's all hype no matter how many refrences you give them- no one want's to believe that the big pharma or our govt is injuring society let alone our precious children. It's impossible they say!

We fight this battle for our love of our children that God has truly blessed us with.

The truth will come out more and more as God is always for truth. Our government (Dem&Rep) along with the pharmas are going to hide this as they are the abortion-breast cancer link , the SV40 contamination of the Polio vaccine, Agent Orange and GulfWar syndrome/Anthrax among other things.
Slowly the truth is being exposed and more are getting involved and fighting for safer vaccines and medicines. Until then, God has given us the grace to take care of our families and make decisions regarding their health care and we have to excersize that option.

The truth prevails and we must continue to fight four our children,we know what has harmed them, someday if it be God's will, so will the rest of the public.

Pax.. God Bless You and yours.

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John Schultz

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This page contains a single entry by John Schultz published on October 21, 2004 9:31 AM.

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