As I was taking out the trash this morning, I was struck by reader Patrice Becker's observation in the combox yesterday: "The 'unique methodology' supposedly developed by Father Maciel was almost an carbon copy of the Latter Days Saints community methodology. Having lived amongst Mormons for over nine years, I recommend every RC member read Judy Robinson's book Out of Mormonism to discover Fr. Maciel's methodology is not unique at all."
Okay, I don't know Patrice personally, so I cannot vouch for the reader's alleged experiences with Legion priests or Mormon bishops. However, I have read Robinson's Out of Mormonism in addition to Andrea Moore-Emmett's God's Brothel. I definitely see some striking similarities in methodology between Maciel and Mormonism. From the focus on programming and recruitment, to the sometimes blurry lines between church and business, to the way the head of the Mormon structure is practically worshiped. This is making sense. Way too much sense. Thanks Patrice.
You believe this kind of stuff, but refuse to believe MM was a CIA agent. Who would have fed MM inside info on the Mormons?
A you feel that you got objective and reliable information about the Mormon faith from a book titled "God's Brothel?"
How do you feel about similarly titled books about Catholicism?
Thank you Pete for your comments here. After reading Patrice's comments earlier I reflected what I have learned about the Mormons. I think she is really on to something. The mormons are no more Christan than maciel's legion, despite the outward appearences.
Ahhh, I think you mean Legion methodology. Last I checked most everyone involved is baptized.
nct,
During the Cold War many folks that traveled behind the iron curtain or headed international groups filed at least one report to gov'ts. Maciel said he was a CIA agent in his "third life" so who knows if he ever passed intelligence to the CIA?
But you're into the realms of conspiracy theory if your assuming the CIA sent him to be ordained or to screw up the Church or anything like that.
nct, I love your comments, they always make me laugh. Seriously, I would much rather believe that MM was a CIA agent instead of a priest.
My thinking is this: Marciel became a priest, started up a new order, and in the 70ies, when Liberation Theology arose as a movement in Latin America, was recruited to the CIA, who supported his movement as part of a counter insurrection strategy. This was prior to the wars of the 80ies in Nicaragua, Guatemala, and Salvador. When MM wanted to leave the priesthood, the CIA wanted him there, but set up his double life with $$, Swiss bank accounts and the false identities. While MM was an agent, CIA would have given him all kinds of organizational info to help him build his methodology, just the way they helped Bin Ladin when he was fighting the Russians in Afghanistan. And they would have financed his organization, giving it more money to reward its success. The seduction of wealthy widows was only a front, because he made more money than could be accounted for by those means. And the Legion never questioned his spending because no matter how much he took, he would always come back with greater cash. That the CIA was financing religious groups who opposed Catholicism was well known at the time. They financed the Evangelicals, so now there are more Evangelicals than Catholics in Guatemala. Everything to divert attention from social justice and the poor having a say. And MM coming from latifundista roots has a very paternalistic approach to the poor. The rich would provide charity, while the poor would receive it and stay where they were. Diverting Catholicism along such a benign path would have served the strategic and economic interests of the USA. Especially when the Latin American wars got hot, a period that coincides with the growth of the Legion.
JPII was a strong critic of Liberation Theology, and considering the numbers of Catholics disapeared by the death squads, he was right to be. Then comes this orthodox movement that is an alternative to Liberation Theology, and one that actually recruits the wealthy and influential into the service of the Church. JPII's anti-communism would have led him to encourage MM's movement as a means of breaking the backs of those alliances that would unite Marxists and Catholics over the oppression of the poor.
It is my conviction that there are layers to this story that are not immediately apparent, and sex and vice is a great diversion from whatever else might have been going on.
"Who would have fed MM inside info on the Mormons?"
No inside info. necessary - one just has to study their ways. I grew up in a strongly Mormon community and can attest to the strong similarities betw. the two groups. Pete is correct that Mormons venerate their leader - he's called the Prophet. He is the one who receives the truths of the faith from the Heavenly Father. Mormonism is not a revealed religion but one whose tenants of faith can shift remarkably, depending on what is revealed to the Prophet over time. Thus, Mormons follow whatever the Prophet tells them as he is God's instrument for holiness in their lives. Sound familiar?
The LDS are also highly centralized - their version of the "General Directorate office" is located in SLC, of course - and hold vast amounts of real estate, business and banking interests, etc. Their "mascot" is the honeybee because they are "busy as bees" building up their kingdom. Again sound familiar?
Their apostolates are organized locally at the "ward" (parish) level but with overall direction from the central offices. Last I checked it was unheard of for, say, a Mormon lady to organize something for the church without permission from her bishop (pastor of the local church community). And it would have to jive with the bishop's goals as well as the overall mission of the LDS church. Sounds like the local LC section director and territorial planning, doesn't it?
There is much much more but you get the pic. I'll leave with this observation: in my entire life I've only known two groups who love giving testimony about the group in front of large gatherings designed to persuade others to join the group and/or to bond the current membership more tightly: Mormons, and RC members.
LCT,
Well, that's more plausible than what I'd taken your idea for initially.
The trouble now is, Maciel has been using his money to buy off Vatican insiders since the fifties; or, so I'm told. (Granted, back around that time he also had the advantage of the Pope dying and somehow nobody watching him and his order too closely in the interim... again, if what I've been told is true...)
*NCT,
(No, I don't know how I got my finger in the wrong spot. I was obviously so focused on the discussion I forgot who I was talking to and reverted to some dumb reflex.)
To explain, God's Brothel is a book about the stories women who left polygamous Mormon off-shoots. When the FLDS raid took place in Texas a couple years ago, I personally interviewed many of the women who shared their stories in God's Brothel. I then published several articles with the Washington Times and a couple of pro-life newspapers and magazines. I also carried out some investigative research and their stories were well-corroborated. Additionally, several other reporters carried out similar research and came to similar conclusions.
Get ride of Joe Cannon as editor of the Deseret News over Pedophile Cover Up!
NCT,
If there is evidence (not guesses) that MM conspired with the CIA to violate any civil laws or to subvert the Church or betray individuals then it is of interest.
(And I'm not talking about blurring the lines between politics and religion. He was no saint. He used people. And yes he hung around Mexican business interests with lots of money with no love for Marxists or for innocent folks asking for justice)
"sex and vice is a great diversion from whatever else might have been going on".
If you think the sex and vice (that goes back to the beginnings) was made public to divert attention then doesn't make sense. How would that divert attention from Maciel? Shining a spotlight on a dead co-conspirator is lunacy.
If you think the sex and the vice and grooming of the enablers and victims is of far less interest than 70's politics, then why post here?