A well-organized thinker lands on the skeptical side

Response to Medjugorje: II. Weak Objections Against Authenticity 4, C-D
“C. Some of the other apparent “false teachings” were never attributed to Mary, but were stated by the seers. It is certainly possible that teenage seers might be fuzzy on certain points of Catholic dogma – unless the Blessed Virgin was giving them a comprehensive catechesis on the Catholic faith throughout her visits.
D. As for apparent heretical statements from the Blessed Virgin herself, such as her denying, in her August 31, 1982 message, that she is the Mediatrix of all graces as the Church has outlined in Her teachings, by saying “I do not dispose of all graces. I receive from God what I obtain through prayer”, (http://www.medjugorje.org/msg82.htm) it must be admitted by sceptics of Medjugorje that there are statements in the Bible itself that seem on the surface like more of a contradiction and more heretical than this statement, necessitating an even greater effort at attempting to reconcile them. Here, there is really no issue – Mary is not denying that she is the Mediatrix, but is rather responding to the idea that we can just pray to her and not actually do the hard work that the Lord would have us do ourselves in order to be holy. “I do not distribute all graces” here means that, from Mary’s perspective, “The fact that I am the Mediatrix does not mean nobody on earth has to lift a finger to do anything”. It is arguments like this that make believers in Medjugorje think the sceptics are just grasping at straws and using any little thing that seems a bit “off” to make their case – and in this instance, I completely agree with that assessment. Such sceptics have bent over backwards much further to explain difficult or problematic Catholic statements in response to Protestant objections (especially concerning statements we have made on Mary and Marian devotion). If they would have put in just as much effort with this statement, they would have been able to resolve the apparent difficulty – as many believers in Medjugorje have.”
In 4C., Wade refers to the difference between a message from an apparition and a message said to be from an apparition but which is actually a seer’s own meditation or speculation. This distinction is stated in the Norms for the Discernment of Apparitions in 1.B.b: “taking into account, however, the possibility that the subject may add something by their own activity—even if this is done unconsciously—of some purely human elements to an authentic supernatural revelation, these having nevertheless to remain free from any error in the natural order. Cf. St Ignatius, Spiritual Exercises, n. 336”
In D., Wade references a common message used by skeptics to show the apparition isn’t Mary. However, there are other messages which he hasn’t referenced and which do put serious doubt on the apparition’s authenticity – and ergo, are not weak objections against the apparition’s authenticity. Those messages, which can be read at Messages And Teachings of Mary at Medjugorje and which the September message can be read at Our Lady Of Medjugorje: Messages From 1982, are the following:
WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 7TH 1981
The seers: “Is there, outside of Jesus, other intermediaries between God and man, and what is their role?”
There is only one mediator between God and man, and it is Jesus Christ.
SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 4TH 1982
Jesus prefers that you address yourselves directly to Him rather than through an intermediary. In the meantime, if you wish to give yourselves completely to God and if you wish that I be your protector, then confide to me all your intentions, your fasts, and your sacrifices so that I can dispose of them according to the will of God.
In these two messages, the apparition denies two doctrines of the Church: The saints’ share in the meditation of Jesus and Mary’s unique share in the meditation of Jesus.
It might seem, regarding the October message, that the apparition is only affirming the doctrine of Jesus’ unique meditation, yet, the apparition was asked about those who share in His meditations and what their roles are; the apparition did not answer the question, which gives the impression it is either ignorant of the saints of Heaven, does not believe the saints share in Jesus’ meditation, or does not wish to teach about the doctrine at the time.
The latter would not be heretical, yet, given the fact that the apparition in the September message denies Mary’s unique share in Jesus’ meditation – for the first sentence of the message is a Protestant argument against the doctrine of Mary’s unique share in Jesus’ meditation* – it would seem the apparition is either ignorant of the saints of Heaven or does not believe the saints share in Jesus’ meditation.
The doctrines of the saints’ share and Mary’s unique share in the meditation of Christ were made dogma at the Second Vatican Council in the dogmatic constitution Lumen Gentium. These doctrines are further taught by the Magisterium of the Church in various documents of the Church, such as Octobri Mense and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Below are the relevant excerpts from the Church documents.
The intercession of the saints. “Being more closely united to Christ, those who dwell in heaven fix the whole Church more firmly in holiness. . . . They do not cease to intercede with the Father for us, as they proffer the merits which they acquired on earth through the one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus . . . . So by their fraternal concern is our weakness greatly helped.”
– Catechism of the Catholic Church 956
“Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it.” “No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.”
– Catechism of the Catholic Church 970
With equal truth may it be also affirmed that, by the will of God, Mary is the intermediary through whom is distributed unto us this immense treasure of mercies gathered by God, for mercy and truth were created by Jesus Christ.(6) Thus as no man goeth to the Father but by the Son, so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother.
– Octobri Mense 4
For by reason of the fact that those in heaven are more closely united with Christ, they establish the whole Church more firmly in holiness, lend nobility to the worship which the Church offers to God here on earth and in many ways contribute to its greater edification.(269)(3*) For after they have been received into their heavenly home and are present to the Lord,(270) through Him and with Him and in Him they do not cease to intercede with the Father for us,(4*) showing forth the merits which they won on earth through the one Mediator between God and man,(271) serving God in all things and filling up in their flesh those things which are lacking of the sufferings of Christ for His Body which is the Church.(272)(5*) Thus by their brotherly interest our weakness is greatly strengthened.
– Lumen Gentium 49
There is but one Mediator as we know from the words of the apostle, “for there is one God and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a redemption for all”.(298) The maternal duty of Mary toward men in no wise obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows His power. For all the salvific influence of the Blessed Virgin on men originates, not from some inner necessity, but from the divine pleasure. It flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on His mediation, depends entirely on it and draws all its power from it. In no way does it impede, but rather does it foster the immediate union of the faithful with Christ.
– Lumen Gentium 60
For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer. Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is really communicated in different ways to His creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.
– Lumen Gentium 62
* Protestants do not believe in the intercession of Mary, let alone of any saint. They commonly cite 1 Timothy 2:5, “For there is one God. There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus”, as evidence that there are no intermediaries in Heaven; this is made clear with a simple Google search. The apparition cites 1 Timothy 2:5 in response to the seer’s question on who shares in Jesus’ mediation and what roles they have in the October message. This is not just some coincidence.

3 comments

Nick says:

August 6, 2010 at 10:36 pm

Great articles!
How do you contact the person? I wanna send him an e-Sundae.

Log in to Reply
Nick says:

August 8, 2010 at 2:39 am

Response to Medjugorje: II. Weak Objections Against Authenticity 4, C-D
“C. Some of the other apparent “false teachings” were never attributed to Mary, but were stated by the seers. It is certainly possible that teenage seers might be fuzzy on certain points of Catholic dogma – unless the Blessed Virgin was giving them a comprehensive catechesis on the Catholic faith throughout her visits.
D. As for apparent heretical statements from the Blessed Virgin herself, such as her denying, in her August 31, 1982 message, that she is the Mediatrix of all graces as the Church has outlined in Her teachings, by saying “I do not dispose of all graces. I receive from God what I obtain through prayer”, (http://www.medjugorje.org/msg82.htm) it must be admitted by sceptics of Medjugorje that there are statements in the Bible itself that seem on the surface like more of a contradiction and more heretical than this statement, necessitating an even greater effort at attempting to reconcile them. Here, there is really no issue – Mary is not denying that she is the Mediatrix, but is rather responding to the idea that we can just pray to her and not actually do the hard work that the Lord would have us do ourselves in order to be holy. “I do not distribute all graces” here means that, from Mary’s perspective, “The fact that I am the Mediatrix does not mean nobody on earth has to lift a finger to do anything”. It is arguments like this that make believers in Medjugorje think the sceptics are just grasping at straws and using any little thing that seems a bit “off” to make their case – and in this instance, I completely agree with that assessment. Such sceptics have bent over backwards much further to explain difficult or problematic Catholic statements in response to Protestant objections (especially concerning statements we have made on Mary and Marian devotion). If they would have put in just as much effort with this statement, they would have been able to resolve the apparent difficulty – as many believers in Medjugorje have.”
In 4C., Wade refers to the difference between a message from an apparition and a message said to be from an apparition but which is actually a seer’s own meditation or speculation. This distinction is stated in the Norms for the Discernment of Apparitions in 1.B.b: “taking into account, however, the possibility that the subject may add something by their own activity—even if this is done unconsciously—of some purely human elements to an authentic supernatural revelation, these having nevertheless to remain free from any error in the natural order. Cf. St Ignatius, Spiritual Exercises, n. 336”
In D., Wade references a common message used by skeptics to show the apparition isn’t Mary. However, there are other messages which he hasn’t referenced and which do put serious doubt on the apparition’s authenticity – and ergo, are not weak objections against the apparition’s authenticity. Those messages, which can be read at Messages And Teachings of Mary at Medjugorje and which the September message can be read at Our Lady Of Medjugorje: Messages From 1982, are the following:
WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 7TH 1981
The seers: “Is there, outside of Jesus, other intermediaries between God and man, and what is their role?”
There is only one mediator between God and man, and it is Jesus Christ.
SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 4TH 1982
Jesus prefers that you address yourselves directly to Him rather than through an intermediary. In the meantime, if you wish to give yourselves completely to God and if you wish that I be your protector, then confide to me all your intentions, your fasts, and your sacrifices so that I can dispose of them according to the will of God.
In these two messages, the apparition denies two doctrines of the Church: The saints’ share in the meditation of Jesus and Mary’s unique share in the meditation of Jesus.
It might seem, regarding the October message, that the apparition is only affirming the doctrine of Jesus’ unique meditation, yet, the apparition was asked about those who share in His meditations and what their roles are; the apparition did not answer the question, which gives the impression it is either ignorant of the saints of Heaven, does not believe the saints share in Jesus’ meditation, or does not wish to teach about the doctrine at the time.
The latter would not be heretical, yet, given the fact that the apparition in the September message denies Mary’s unique share in Jesus’ meditation – for the first sentence of the message is a Protestant argument against the doctrine of Mary’s unique share in Jesus’ meditation* – it would seem the apparition is either ignorant of the saints of Heaven or does not believe the saints share in Jesus’ meditation.
The doctrines of the saints’ share and Mary’s unique share in the meditation of Christ were made dogma at the Second Vatican Council in the dogmatic constitution Lumen Gentium. These doctrines are further taught by the Magisterium of the Church in various documents of the Church, such as Octobri Mense and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Below are the relevant excerpts from the Church documents.
The intercession of the saints. “Being more closely united to Christ, those who dwell in heaven fix the whole Church more firmly in holiness. . . . They do not cease to intercede with the Father for us, as they proffer the merits which they acquired on earth through the one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus . . . . So by their fraternal concern is our weakness greatly helped.”
– Catechism of the Catholic Church 956
“Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it.” “No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.”
– Catechism of the Catholic Church 970
With equal truth may it be also affirmed that, by the will of God, Mary is the intermediary through whom is distributed unto us this immense treasure of mercies gathered by God, for mercy and truth were created by Jesus Christ.(6) Thus as no man goeth to the Father but by the Son, so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother.
– Octobri Mense 4
For by reason of the fact that those in heaven are more closely united with Christ, they establish the whole Church more firmly in holiness, lend nobility to the worship which the Church offers to God here on earth and in many ways contribute to its greater edification.(269)(3*) For after they have been received into their heavenly home and are present to the Lord,(270) through Him and with Him and in Him they do not cease to intercede with the Father for us,(4*) showing forth the merits which they won on earth through the one Mediator between God and man,(271) serving God in all things and filling up in their flesh those things which are lacking of the sufferings of Christ for His Body which is the Church.(272)(5*) Thus by their brotherly interest our weakness is greatly strengthened.
– Lumen Gentium 49
There is but one Mediator as we know from the words of the apostle, “for there is one God and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a redemption for all”.(298) The maternal duty of Mary toward men in no wise obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows His power. For all the salvific influence of the Blessed Virgin on men originates, not from some inner necessity, but from the divine pleasure. It flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on His mediation, depends entirely on it and draws all its power from it. In no way does it impede, but rather does it foster the immediate union of the faithful with Christ.
– Lumen Gentium 60
For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer. Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is really communicated in different ways to His creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.
– Lumen Gentium 62
* Protestants do not believe in the intercession of Mary, let alone of any saint. They commonly cite 1 Timothy 2:5, “For there is one God. There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus”, as evidence that there are no intermediaries in Heaven; this is made clear with a simple Google search. The apparition cites 1 Timothy 2:5 in response to the seer’s question on who shares in Jesus’ mediation and what roles they have in the October message. This is not just some coincidence.

Log in to Reply
Nick says:

August 8, 2010 at 3:02 am

I would like to say that I am not an theologian or an expert on dogma or doctrine. So I can be wrong, and I await the Vatican’s judgment on Medjugorje. :)

Log in to Reply

3 comments

Leave a comment Cancel reply