Expressing outrage at my Let us prey… entry, Fed up RC states: “1. It is a sin to make false accusation without [sic.] subtantial basis to prove the facts.”
Since Fed up RC appears to be presenting this principle as universally applicable to Catholics, I will respond with a quote attributed to Fr. Owen Kearns, in which the high-profile LC priest reportedly describes Juan Vaca (Maciel’s first accuser) as “a proud, status-conscious man angered and disappointed at his professional failures.”
That’s quite the accusation against a former colleague. To my knowledge Fr. Kearns has not retracted it publicly. And as of this writing I am told Mr. Vaca has not received an apology from the Legion. So where’s the proof?
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Now Pete, not to be a smart a** but whether or not you are in the right or wrong with your ‘Prey for Us’ article, surely one man’s sins do not equal another?
Not saying either of you are sinning against charity, however, I think you can make a better argument than this one ;)
Interestingly, though, DaniNZ, I backed up my post with the provokative pictures and then there were a host of comments backing up what I said from first-hand encounters with priests who played them. The negative comment came from someone who’s premise was, “that was not my experience so all of you must be guilty of slander.”
Well, how about this often repeated statement that drove me nuts and eventually started me on my walk away from RC, “The reason that the diocese limits our number of Conquest Clubs is because they are afraid of losing vocations to the Legion.” When I demanded when this statement came from the diocese, they responded that this was well known. That is the #1 whisper campaign in the Legion and it set itself up against the diocese. This is proof enough for me that the Legion does not practice what they preach.
Lol! DaniNZ, you want the lawyerly defence!
Very well, ‘Still RC – for now, anyway’ offers the best defense when she said: “1) What false accusations did Pete Vere make? Please provide the examples.” You will notice that in making the accusation ‘Fed up RC’ does not actually cite from the text of my blog entry.
‘Fed up RC’ needs to re-read what I wrote. Carefully. It appears she may be reading stuff into my comments. I won’t speculate as to why, you need to ask her.
However, lets parse my comments:
“Giselle says I shamed her into posting about how the Legion churns out Fr. Eye Candy for women.”
If you head over to Giselle’s website, that’s precisely what she said I have done. Also, she provides some photos of Legionary priests that other women (not just Giselle) tell me are aesthetically pleasing to their sex, one a book cover. I’ve got hundreds of books written by priests, theologians and canonists. None have their photos on the cover except for a handful, and it’s always a small bio photo on the back. On the other hand, my wife and I have a few celebrity biographies, which have these types of large photo on the front cover. Since the purpose of the cover is to sell books, I think the “Fr. Eye Candy” comment is within the realm of fair criticism.
“I also don’t know of any other Catholic order so particular about its grooming practices as to reportedly include them in its institutional norms.”
I don’t know of any. That’s not to say that other orders aren’t as particular or more, I simply haven’t come across one.
“Moreover, as a guy I know there are certain priests – HLI’s Fr. Thomas Euteneuer being a good example – that just strike us as a men’s men.”
Fr. Euteneuer strikes US as a manly priest. Others may disagree, but that’s how Father strikes a lot of people. It’s just something about his presence and demeanor, probably the fact he’s an exorcist, activist and former Marine.
However, suppose I had said “Father Euteneuer IS a manly priest.” Have we been so traumatized by certain heterodox trends in the Church after Vatican II that we now consider being manly an insult to clergy? Priests are suppose to be manly. After all, they’re men.
Most Regnum Christi members I have come across are women. Most OD members I have come across are men. I clearly state that this is my personal experience. Nowhere do I state that this is an official breakdown of membership according to gender.
“Giselle says…” That’s what Giselle said, you can visit her blog. Also, several of her readers allege similar experiences, which they describe in detail. So the impression is more than just Giselle’s.
“Some of the nastiest annulment cases I have ever participated in are those in which a priest came between husband and wife.”
That’s been my experience. However, if you keep reading, it is clear that I’m speaking about parish priests – an area of ministry usually not identified with Legionaries in North America.
“However, I don’t see ‘princess’ as appropriate to an audience of wives and mothers.”
I personally don’t find this appropriate. I’m speaking personally here, even though I back up my opinion with reference to St. Paul in Holy Scripture.
“I find it charming when our parish priest greets my daughters before Mass, saying ‘Hello princesses.'”
Unless you’re willing to come here and attend our parish one Sunday morning, you will have to trust me that this is how my parish priest addresses my daughters. Other members of our congregation can vouch for me. None of us see a problem with this. Father is a good priest and my daughters like to be addressed as princesses.
Would I find it creepy if Father addressed my wife in the same way? Yes. But he hasn’t, so this is not an accusation.
“What pops into my mind is St. Ignatius Loyola’s Thirteen Rule of spiritual discernment – a rule drilled into the head of every Jesuit prior to ordination:”
That’s what St. Ignatius said. Since St. Ignatius was the founder of the Jesuits, and since discernment of spirits is a major part of the Jesuit charism, this rule is drilled into the head of every Jesuit. I’m not claiming anything here that isn’t common knowledge to the Church, or readily admitted to by Jesuits.
“Beware of flattery. It’s never from God and there is always some seduction behind it.”
This can be backed up by Holy Scripture and the quote from St. Ignatius.
“And on that note, I’ll end this post by answering Giselle’s priestly pin-ups with my own:”
Giselle offered a couple photos of priests which she and other women on her blog basically described as pin-up quality.
That being said, what I offered was not a photo but a video clip which was anything but “pin-up” quality, leading Giselle to reply I still didn’t get it. Point taken. I was wrong to call this a pin-up, and I apologize.
“What you see, dear reader, is 100 percent Semper Fi!”
From the “NZ” in your handle, I’m thinking you might be a New Zealander. If so, I can see how that comment might be misunderstood. It’s steeped in Americana.
If you saw the video clip, you will notice that Fr. Euteneuer did not let Sean Hannity push him around, but rather Father stood his ground for the Catholic faith and responded to Mr. Hannity blow-for-blow. Here in North America, Sean Hannity is considered a combative radio and television host – generally for conservative causes, but not in every case as we saw here. Only rarely does a guest on his show give as good as Hannity dishes it out, and Fr. E was one of these rare individuals.
Additionally, “Semper Fi!” is a common expression used by the U.S. Marine Corps, the branch of the U.S. military considered heaviest on the teeth (combat trades and training). It’s short for “Semper Fidelis”, the Marine Corps motto meaning “Always faithful”.
So there’s a bit of a double-entendre there, in that I’m saying Fr. Euteneuer is still 100 percent Marine in his bearing and character, which in American society is generally a compliment and not an insult. I’m also saying that Fr. E. is 100 percent faithful, always, to Catholic teaching, which I think he proved by going toe-to-toe with one of America’s most combative television personalities, to defend Catholic teaching that most non-Catholics find medieval and many Catholics don’t practice.
So other than the Eye Candy comment, where do I accuse Legion priests? And if I didn’t accuse them, I most certainly did not slander them. In short, Fed up RC is accusing me of something I have not done, and she does so without offering any proof. Thus I would remind her of her own words here: “It is a sin to make false accusation without [sic.] subtantial basis to prove the facts.”
Now I’m pretty sure I can guess what most Legion apologists are thinking right now. Good. Before those thoughts leave your mind, go back and re-read every statement from the Legion concerning this crisis that you now proffer as proof to the rest of us that the Legion has apologized to Maciel’s victims.
For everyone else, I encourage you to check out the comments on Giselle’s blog. Combined with accusations in Spanish-language media that Maciel seduced wealthy widows, and a reported lawsuit against the Legion from a family of one such widow, I believe there’s enough concern being expressed by a wide group of people to justify discussion on the topic.
Don’t the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal have “grooming practices”?
They grow 5 mile long beards…… :-))
One of their priests told me once why: as a sign that they are “not available”. Their lives are completely given to Our Lord.
So, if growing a beard as long as possible means “not available” what might the grooming techniques resulting in slick appearances in the LC mean?
Mercy!
Mum26
LOL, Mum 26— I think the CFRs might be better said to have “Lack of grooming” practices. =)
On the other hand, I think a lot of religious orders do inspire “crushes” in young women.
I used to have a HUGE crush on the Jesuits— they were so smart and fun and funny… and they had such AWESOME martyrs. I mean, look at Miguel Pro! And I wasn’t the only girl I knew who was a Jesuit-groupie…..
So maybe this is another attempt by the LCs to imitate the Jesuits while not quite understanding the draw? Because the Jesuits AREN’T overwhelmingly good-looking (sorry any Sjs out there…)–their attractiveness lies in their intelligence, their fervent desire for martyrdom (even the ones who teach at universities seem to wish they were assigned as undercover-priests in the middle east or something) and, well, their sense of humor.
Of course, the Jesuits I knew were also mildly embarrassed by the fact that so many college girls had a crush on the order……
Okay…I’m going to venture into an area “where angels dare not tread”…maybe.
In my limited experience, I have seen that women who are desiring to grow in the spiritual life may be attracted to priests/celibate men because of a deeper sense of understanding, support and compassion. And I think priests/celibate men can be sometimes “overly” taken with consecrated women (whether lay or religious) and have an “idealized” kind of perception. It goes both ways. Some of this is just the natural attraction between man and woman. But in the celibate life, this must be dealt with, and honestly confronted. “Spiritual marriages” between celibates are NOT proper. And even with married women and celibate men, a proper relationship based in maturity, boundaries, and respect have to be demanded. When this “natural” attraction between men and women is manipulated in whatever fashion, you have all kinds of problems. We just cannot “use” people, even if it is not sexually immoral, to get what we want.
And don’t get me started on the same-sex “crushes” …that’s for another post:
Oops…I meant to post this at “ExLC and I will be watching football in the basement”.
But if the ‘gals’ are taking it from there, probably better I goofed:
Oops…I meant to post this at “ExLC and I will be watching football in the basement”.
But if the ‘gals’ are taking it from there, probably better I goofed:)!
Ooh, I don’t know, we had a very charismatic Primitive Observance Franciscan come for a parish mission (but then, I always liked ZZ Top)
“Every girl crazy ’bout a sharp-dressed man”