And where did you say you were incardinated?

Since the following comment from the thread on Tim Drake’s new book was, for lack of a better expression, off-topic, I thought I would re-post it here:
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Why would anyone accept Peter Vere’s opinions? Even the Adoremus Bulletin disagrees with his views (see the letters section in the October 2004 edition of the Adoremus Bulletin). He likes to think that he doesn’t criticize traditional Catholics as a whole, yet his many writings (letters, articles, etc) tend to lean in that direction.
The bottom line is that like many modern Catholics, he does not know anything about the Traditional Latin Mass, fails to define it in accord with traditional Church teaching, and fails to know its true history and development. Tim Drake has this same problem! They lack intellectual honesty. Yet Vere will say he attends the “old” Mass but where is his defense of it? He is more of a critic of the traditionalist movement than a friend. Meanwhile, the Church is being infiltrated with blasphemies such as the charismatic pentecostal-style Life Teen Mass and the “gay mass”, but no books or articles are written against these issues by neo-catholics, yet the Traditionalist movement, which is far less common in the Church, is more criticized
-fr. adler, STL
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Anyway, time for another plug of More Catholic Than The Pope…

38 comments

  3. Eric, you will have to ask Fr. Adler who presents himself as a theological expert on the issue. As the happily-married father of two small children (and hoping God will bless us with more) I wasn’t aware such a thing existed as a “Gay Mass” existed. That being said, I’m quite happy with our local parish which is administered by the FSSP. Thus I will leave the “Gay Mass” to the experts…

  4. What is the “Gay Mass”? Does the priest sprinkle fairy dust at the consecration?
    Fr. Adler, if indeed you are a priest (I’m going to assume against my better judgment that you are), perhaps you should be saying more Masses and spouting fewer bigoted remarks. Just a thought.

  6. The so-called “gay Mass” is one that some parishes often promote and “celebrate” in dioceses such as St. Paul, Rochester or even in Chicago. The Wanderer has documented this quite well for decades. So has Michael Rose. This is a “Mass” that Cardinal Bernadin tolerated. It was at his funeral Mass that a “gay choir” sang at according to The Wanderer. This is not new!
    I don’t think I made “bigoted” remarks. The definition of that word does not apply. I did make a constructed analysis over an issue. That’s all. It’s not heresy or schism to adhere to the Traditional Mass as long as it’s not used to divide, but since such Masses rarely exist anywhere these days, I doubt it is cause of much division unlike the division caused my modernist bishops who tolerate abuses, sexual or liturgical. I think if you use proportionalism, the facts speak for themselves. I do think it is wrong to overuse the expression, as Vere and Drake often do, “more Catholic than the Pope” as if the Pope is automatically a saint and free from sin once he becomes Pope. He is protected when it comes to faith and morals, but he still can make policy that conflicts with certain teachings and such policies are not to be respected. Kissing the Koran (photos prove that this happened)is one example that is not a matter of faith and morals, and no Catholic is obliged to respect such unprescedented actions!
    BTW, even a Pope can commit heresy or schism, and according to Saint Thomas Aquinas, Saint Robert Bellarmine, and Suarez, we may not tolerate such a Pope but call for faithfulness and adherence to our traditions handed onto us since the Apostles. The good news is that the current Pope has not committed heresy or schism. But some policies are questionable, and even neo-Catholics like Karl Keating and Jeffrey Mirus have recently questioned the policies of JPII especially in light of the sex abuse scandal.
    The Mass is “joyful?” The Mass is suppose to be (as it is throughout the traditional Latin Mass) the re-presentation of Christ in an unbloody manner, not a three-ring circus! As Christ was crucified, it was not a time to party and sing, but a solemn moment. At Mass, we are attending something that is “other-worldly”, we are to lose our self, and be subjected to the Heavenly realm, not to ways of this world.

  8. Fr. Adler, it is precisely because the Mass is otherworldly that it is joyful. It is not only a re-presentation of Christ’s Passion and Death, but also a celebration of His Resurrection, and in that respect it is joyful. No one said it should be a three ring circus, and I don’t think you’d find anyone who blogs on or comments at Catholic Light who thinks that it should be.
    I still have no idea what you’re talking about regarding the “Gay Mass,” but I think the Church has much bigger problems, regardless. Catholics For a Free Choice, for instance, is a much bigger problem. What are traditionalists doing about them?
    I think the attack on Mr. Vere could have been done without. Are you a Catholic priest, or are you a priest with the Society of St. Pius X? I can’t imagine that a Catholic priest would get online to rip someone a new one. But I suppose it’s possible.

  10. While it’s possible for the Holy Father to hold heretical views privately without teaching them publicly, it is impossible for him to teach heresy publicly.
    Kissing the Koran is a non-issue. In the culture of the people presenting the book, it is customary to kiss a gift when it is given to you. Knowing this, the Holy Father kissed the book — not because he was venerating the Koran as sacred scripture, but because he wanted to accept the gift in the spirit in which it was given.

  11. Your rhetoric betrays you, Father.
    Using the term “neo-Catholic” to refer to certain Catholics is an acknowledgement of an ideological divide; but the truly new ideology involved is the one belonging to certain rebellious people.
    Rather than acknowledge the duty of Catholics to obey the Pope’s liturgical directives, they presume the right to pick and choose.
    It would be more fitting to speak of Catholics and “neo-Traditionalists”.

  12. Extremely dogmatic traditionalism and flagrant liberalism are both worthy of derision and rebuke. Jesus warned us against the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees, two wildly different theological camps, the former hyper-traditional and hypocritical, aggrandizing the traditions of men over the pure truth of Scripture and lording their clerical status over the people, and the latter completely dismissive of orthodox doctrines such as the Resurrection of the dead.
    This has been and always will be the danger to Christ’s Church: Satan can and does draw away people into heretical deceptions which deviate to the left or the right of the sound doctrine of Scripture and hence send people careening theologically off the straight and narrow.
    The mission of the Church should be to worship God in Spirit and in Truth and to preach and publish the Good News to all nations. In the course of that mission strong debate is inevitable, but we should all be careful in that debate not to deeply scar and wound fellow members of the body of Christ, all the while neglecting to be about the work God has called us to do helping salve the wounds of a lost and dying world that needs Jesus.

  13. The alleged “Fr.” “Adler” “STL” tells us that his e-mail address is “adler33@cabletron.com”, but to the best of my knowledge, that doesn’t appear to be a valid address. Rather, he’s an MSN user.
    Cabletron actually broke up into several companies in 2000, so it’s not clear that anyone has a valid “cabletron.com” e-mail address any more.
    I can’t see why a priest of “Traditionalist” sympathies and demanding moral standards would fib about his e-mail address; still less why he would choose to be a customer of Bill Gates, that notorious promoter of contraception via UNFPA and IPPF.

  14. Not to get too far off track: I yield to no one in my dislike for Bill Gates, but he did retract his support for population control after going to Africa. He was shocked to find that they need clean water and food, not contraceptives and computers.
    Ken, where ya been, man?

  16. That link doesn’t list contraception explicitly, though I trust that “reproductive health” is a euphemism that includes them. I do note that the vast majority of the monies listed ($56.7m) are spent “to reduce maternal deaths in developing countries by improving access to life-saving treatment for women with serious obstetric complications,” and who would disagree with that?

  18. +J.M.J+
    Amazon.com also sells books from TAN and Angelus Press. Why would such Catholic publishers allow an organization that tolerates evil to carry their books? Are not both the Catholicpublishers and Amazon.com profiting from this mutual relationship?
    I suppose a “Gay Mass” would be one of those Masses held by Dignity or some other pro-gay dissident group. Such groups have been denounced before by such non-trad orthodox Catholics as Mother Angelica, Fr. Fessio, Karl Keating, etc. So it’s untrue to say that “neo-catholics” haven’t denounced such activities.
    In Jesu et Maria,

  21. Yeah, Eric, you’re confusing your conspiracies again. As the resident expert in ecumenical law, I’m the one conspiring with the Jews. Rich, as he points out, is conspiring with the freemasons, while Nathan is now independent again after recently conspiring with the communists… Hope this clarifies everything.

  22. Yeah, Eric, you’re confusing your conspiracies again. As the resident expert in ecumenical law, I’m the one conspiring with the Jews. Rich, as he points out, is conspiring with the freemasons, while Nathan is now independent again after recently conspiring with the communists… Hope this clarifies everything.

  23. Hey, Eric,
    I’ve been lurking. Just didn’t feel the impetus to post comments the past few weeks. That and I joined a team blog and contributed some to it, plus work stuff.
    My workplace is considering doing a blog for our webpage (www.mrc.org). I’m praying that they really do go through with it. It’d be a great opportunity.
    Anyway, I wish you and yours and the rest of the CL blog team a very happy Thanksgiving and many blessings for the Christmas season.

  25. “Are neo-Catholics evil Jews, like neoconservatives?” — The ‘neocon’ label doesn’t apply exclusively to our “elder brothers and sisters.”
    Don’t forget, that neo-Catholics Fr. Neuhaus, George Weigel and Michael Novak are all labeled ‘neoconservatives’ as well by the Houston Catholic Worker.
    Bear in mind that if the Zionists are indeed pulling the strings of the Bush Administration as the left wing fringe alleges, and if the Zionists (together with the Freemasons) have infiltrated the Vatican as the right wing radtrads alleges, then the Vatican’s opposition to the Bush Administration is simply a veil to conceal the INTERNATIONAL JEWISH CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!
    But then, since we are all indeed “spiritual semites” (Pope Pius XI), I submit that every true Catholic should embrace the Zionist-Neocon label and wear it as a badge of honor. ;-)
    How’s that, Fr. Adler?

  26. Can we close this discussion? One of the reasons I read this blog is that I don’t have to put up with the “neo-Catholic vs RadTrad” nonsense that pollutes Mark Shea’s blog. Just ignore Fr. Adler and he’ll go away. Please.

  28. I feel left out. Who do I get to conspire with?
    You’re welcome to conspire with me. I’m conspiring with the American Falangists to bring the glories reign of Generalissimo Francisco Franco to America. Though you should know that the American Falangists are really a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Illuminati, which in turn was over-run by Opus Dei about thirty years ago. Opus Dei, of course, was the chief instrument in the Zionification of the Vatican. So really you’ll ultimately be conspiring with the Global Zionists, but don’t let on that you know that’s who you’re conspiring with, lest an albino padre with a fully automatic Beretta shows up at your doorstep.

  31. Js,
    Nothing doing. As with all the best conspiracies, you don’t get to find out my name (or anyone else’s) until you’re fully initiated.

  33. +J.M.J+
    Or you could conspire with me. I’ve always wanted to start a secret worldwide conspiracy; it’s been a lifelong dream of mine.
    I still have to hammer out a few minor details, like what exactly we will conspire to do… and I admit I don’t actually have anyone to conspire with yet. Still, this is a once-in-a-lifetime chance to get in on the ground floor of a conspiracy. How can you pass up an opportunity like that? :-)
    In Jesu et Maria,

  34. Hi Rosemarie, you’re more than welcome to conspire with me, but I wish you would have let me know sooner since I just traded your husband Jim to Nathan Nelson for Charlie Hatchko and a first-round picks in next year’s conspiracy draft.

  37. Sorry Chris, given the title and nature of your various websites and blogs, it is clear that you’re already part of the Opus Dei conspiracy. So unless you’re also an American/Russian double agent, you cannot be simultaneously part of a conspiracy internal to Catholicism (Opus Dei) and external to it (Communists, Freemasons, Jews, or Walmart Executives). There is, however, an exception on the liturgical left for members of the Pogo-Stick Altar Leaping Ministry (PSALM)…

  38. Chris is just trying to be in two wings of the vast Zionist conspiracy at once. Shame on him. If he weren’t in Opus Dei, I’d warn him to watch out for albino Opus Dei assassins…
    Incidentally, is Mr. Blosser by any chance albino?

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